Senate committee to vote on permit-less gun carry bill

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Senate committee to vote on permit-less gun carry bill

Post Number:#1  Postby Tomahawk » Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:25 pm

There's isn't enough crime to warrant a person owning/carrying a firearm, but there is so much "gun crime" that we need to enact strict gun control. Which is it? Is there a lot of violent crime or isn't there? If there is, that seems like a good reason to need a gun for protection, if there isn't, they why do we need to ban firearms?
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Senate committee to vote on permit-less gun carry bill

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Re: Senate committee to vote on permit-less gun carry bill

Post Number:#2  Postby Tomahawk » Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:29 pm

There's isn't enough crime to warrant a person owning/carrying a firearm, but there is so much "gun crime" that we need to enact strict gun control. Which is it? Is there a lot of violent crime or isn't there? If there is, that seems like a good reason to need a gun for protection, if there isn't, they why do we need to ban firearms?
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Re: Senate committee to vote on permit-less gun carry bill

Post Number:#3  Postby ksks » Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:25 am

Does anyone know if this addresses school zones?
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Re: Senate committee to vote on permit-less gun carry bill

Post Number:#4  Postby Tomahawk » Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:32 pm

ksks wrote:Does anyone know if this addresses school zones?
We can look, but my legalese isn't as good as it used to be. Too much time with normal people.

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/2017/proposals/sb169

Looks like schools now decide to post or not. Also looks like you can carry in a school zone with a permit, but that part is unclear to me.
There's isn't enough crime to warrant a person owning/carrying a firearm, but there is so much "gun crime" that we need to enact strict gun control. Which is it? Is there a lot of violent crime or isn't there? If there is, that seems like a good reason to need a gun for protection, if there isn't, they why do we need to ban firearms?
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Re: Senate committee to vote on permit-less gun carry bill

Post Number:#5  Postby ksks » Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:03 pm

For instance, this bill eliminates the prohibition on
carrying a firearm on school grounds
and, for persons without a license to carry a
concealed weapon, in a school zone
. Instead, this bill allows schools to post their
buildings and grounds under the trespassing laws
. An individual who violates the
trespassing provision is guilty of a Class C misdemeanor if the individual is in a
posted school building and a Class B forfeiture if the individual is on the posted
grounds of a school.

Looks better. Still wish it was not a misdemeanor. Maybe a warning the first time and mis the second.
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Re: Senate committee to vote on permit-less gun carry bill

Post Number:#6  Postby Tomahawk » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:52 am

So, what does that mean for someone with a permit? If the school isn't posted, you can carry on the grounds and in the buildings? If it is posted, it's just like it is now, or can you carry on the grounds, but not in the buildings?
There's isn't enough crime to warrant a person owning/carrying a firearm, but there is so much "gun crime" that we need to enact strict gun control. Which is it? Is there a lot of violent crime or isn't there? If there is, that seems like a good reason to need a gun for protection, if there isn't, they why do we need to ban firearms?
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Re: Senate committee to vote on permit-less gun carry bill

Post Number:#7  Postby ksks » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:18 am

Well, this fools opinion is that if you have a permit you can carry on school property and buildings if you have a permit.

If you don't have a permit, you can carry in a school zone but not on the property.

Schools can still post property and/or buildings. If you violate that you get a trespass charge, but not a gun charge.

We'll have to see what the legal minds say...
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Re: Senate committee to vote on permit-less gun carry bill

Post Number:#8  Postby ksks » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:12 pm

Now of course there is the federal issue:

[18 U.S.C. § 922(q)(2)(A)] does not apply to the possession of a firearm—

(i) on private property not part of school grounds;

(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

Does this mean if WI does not require the license, you are still in violation of federal law? It did with no license for open carry.

I'm not aware of anyone other than someone committing a criminal act, i.e. selling drugs near a school, being convicted federally, but???

I don't see any benefit to not getting a license. Too many ways for a law abiding person to get hurt.
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Re: Senate committee to vote on permit-less gun carry bill

Post Number:#9  Postby grouchyoldcripple » Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:55 am

As I understand it, the new law creates a 3-tier system for concealed carry in Wisconsin. Lowest tier is Constitutional Carry. No license or permit needed to just carry concealed out and about, but under federal law you are still prohibited from carrying on school property, and you cannot carry concealed in other states that do not have constitutional carry.

Middle tier is a new “permit” which will cost $45 and require a normal background check but NO training. This satisfies the federal requirement for a state license and you will be legal to carry concealed on school property including inside school buildings that are not posted as defenseless victim zones.

Highest tier is the current “license” which will still be $45 with a background check and proof of training as it is now. This gives the same advantage as the “permit” but also has reciprocity with other states as it does now due to the training requirement.

This is per an email I got from my State Senator (Dave Craig) who is very much on our side.

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